00:08Ok. So before we kick off our discussion on cold

00:11flow, I'd just like to um welcome our returning panel of experts.

00:16We have Andy Reid, our engineering manager.

00:19Hello, everyone and we have Matt Ogden, our senior technical product specialist who all

00:26right. So let's kick off with an easy question,

00:29Matt, if you wanna start with what is cold flow?

00:32Absolutely controversial subject. Um OK.

00:36So I'm just gonna share my screen. OK. So this is two statements that I've,

00:42that I've kind of taken um from one being kind of a scientific uh kind of uh

00:48description of what it is and the other one is taken directly from the standards.

00:52Um So the first one is coal flow is the viscous flow of a solid material at ordinary

00:57temperatures. It is the distortion of a solid under sustained

01:01pressure, especially with the accompanying inability to return to its original dimensions

01:06when the pressure is removed.

01:08So, essentially, that's saying that obviously, if pressure is applied to something like a

01:13cable, um that when the pressure is removed, it will not come back to its original state.

01:18Uh Essentially, that's something that we call. Um um uh what's the word compression

01:25set is what I'm trying to get to. Yeah, exactly.

01:27So compression set is something where it will possibly flow back to its original state and

01:32its original dimensions.

01:33Now, if we take the wording from uh 60079-14 10.2 this is really the

01:40only part of the standards where coal flow is mentioned and it basically states that coal

01:45flows. Uh cables employ material which could exhibit

01:49coal flow characteristics.

01:51Coal flowing cables can be described as a movement of the cable sheath under a

01:54compressive force that's created by the displacement of the ceiling cable glands where

01:58the compressor force applied by the seal is greater than the resistance of the cable sheath.

02:04Uh coal flow could give rise to reduction in installation resistance of the cable,

02:09low smoke and or and or fire resistance. Cables usually exhibit signs of coal flow

02:13characteristics. Ok. So uh essentially, so what's that saying is is

02:18when a seal such as something in our fiber, 1421 or our fiber,

02:231453 R AC or even our fiber, 1453 universal, our diaphragm seal that is obviously applying a

02:30force to the potential inner sheath of a cable that could cause potential issues.

02:36Now, the the varying factor is always gonna be the cable.

02:40We know how much pressure needs to be applied with the cable seal.

02:43Um The cables change and obviously dependent on the selection of the cables will determine

02:47whether coal flow could be an issue.

02:49Now, also, the the rating of that cable obviously could be an issue as well with

02:54regards to the fire, fire resistant flame retardant properties.

02:57And what we found is anything that kind of really has any,

03:00anything that conforms to 60331 or 60332, um have these particular

03:07characteristics that caused the shea the the inner sheath to be almost like a cold,

03:11like a cold chewing gum, an old chewing gum. And this is taken directly from a cable that is

03:16um uh certified to that standard. And you can see that I'm just pulling the inner

03:20sheath away and it rips like chewing gum that the resistance of that material obviously is

03:25quite low. Now, you apply something to that sheath that's

03:31gonna obviously ha apply pressure and that pressure needs to be withstood by the,

03:35the inner sheath itself. And if it is greater,

03:38then you will get uh deformation of the cable, inner sheath and obviously potentially cause

03:44something called cola.

03:45Now, not all cables are susceptible to it. Um Sometimes the inner sheet is made of a of a

03:51much harder material and you can't pull this apart like chewing gum as I've,

03:55as I've shown in which case, you know, a standard compression seal would be suitable.

04:00Absolutely. But what we're trying to show today is what we

04:03have and what the, the ability that we've got with, with some of the seal designs um that we

04:08do have a solution without going down the route of a potential barrier gland.

04:12Now to show this, I'm gonna try, I'm gonna essentially make off a cable gland.

04:16I wanna make off this compression seal. This is the same seal that we use on our 501453

04:22R AC essentially an equivalent to A to an E one FW.

04:25I'm gonna tighten this as per the assembly instructions which is tighten until you feel

04:30resistance, which is around there cos the cable's quite big for the cable grind.

04:34It still moves, but the resistance is felt and I'm going to apply one further full turn.

04:41And then at the end of the presentation, we're gonna remove that to see what it has done to

04:47the actual cable in a sheet itself. So another half turn and then also

04:53for continuity. And also we're gonna put on the diaphragm seal.

04:58This is an a size diaphragm seal. I'm just gonna place that on the inner sheath.

05:01This is a passive seal. It doesn't require any mechanical compression

05:05to activate it. So we call it a passive seal.

05:08It sits in place from the moment it's applied to the cable.

05:12So that is now sat in position on the cable in a sheath and we'll remove that at the end of

05:16the end of the presentation as well.

05:19And obviously, all the questions that we're obviously gonna be covering will be going into

05:22a little bit more depth as to what I've just discussed.

05:27Perfect. Very exciting.

05:29Um OK, well, moving on to our, our next question, we talked a little bit about what

05:34cold flow is, but how can cold flow affect the safety of cable installations?

05:40The the thing to bear in mind here is, is the cable gonna try and move away from the

05:45compressive force of the seal? And what is the job that the seal is trying to

05:49do? Um Obviously depends on your protection

05:52concepts. Uh Have you got an ingress protection seal

05:55compressing on the cable or is it a exd um gas in flame propagation seal?

06:03So your risk is that the effectiveness of that seal is gonna be compromised in some way,

06:08which could uh potentially have implications on uh the protection method of the gland,

06:14how well it's gonna perform?

06:16Um For example, if you've got a displacement seal on a very soft bedded cable and that soft

06:22bedded cable is moving away from the seal, are you potentially gonna lose uh your uh explosion

06:28protection seal? And therefore there's a risk of uh propagation

06:32past the seal in a hazardous area.

06:35Um It's worth bearing in mind that the, the risks that we're talking about here

06:42could potentially be multiplied hundreds of thousands of times across every single cable

06:46ground that's installed on your site.

06:48So you have to consider, are you selecting appropriate plans for the the cable types and

06:55the protection environments that you're installing into.

06:58Um And uh you obviously wanna take steps to, to limit risk as much as possible.

07:06Yeah, I, I just like I'd just like to add there that obviously the,

07:09the the resistance of this material in this cable.

07:13Obviously, you have to apply a certain pressure to that.

07:15We obviously go about testing on stainless steel manager as we discussed in previous

07:20presentations, um You apply a certain amount of pressure that was,

07:24that was is able to withstand a pressure test of 450 P.

07:27Si now as the, if you apply a pressure to a soft bedded material that has a low resistance,

07:33that is lower than the, the amount of pressure that's been applied.

07:36Then that will slowly move away which is reducing the pressure all the time.

07:40And by reducing the pressure, you're not then applying the correct pressure to withstand an

07:45internal explosion of four f 450 P SI which is obviously the phenomenon that we've,

07:50we, we call co flow. But the, the, the safety aspect of it is that

07:53potentially energy could escape underneath that seal between the cable and the and the seal

07:59that's obviously been tightened onto that cable. But because of the pressure isn't there anymore

08:03because the material flows away, energy could potentially escape underneath the seal in

08:08between the seal and the and the, and the inner sheath and obviously escape into the wider

08:13world. Um There's, there's probably some uh other

08:19risks there to be aware of as well because if you're displacing the inner sheath,

08:22uh moving the material around, are you gonna risk potential uh damage to the conductors

08:28inside? Are you gonna affect the resistance of the

08:30cable through that point?

08:32Um So a few electrical things to be aware of there as well.

08:36Definitely. And you know, we, we've seen issues where,

08:39you know, this type of cable that certified to this uh flame retardant,

08:43fire resistant standards, um, where it's gone straight through to the uh over time,

08:49it's, it's, it's moved all of this material away and it's now then in contact with the

08:53conductors, obviously losing the installation resistance and obviously,

08:56as per the standard, it states that that could be a potential issue that could be,

09:00that needs to be obviously handled in the right way.

09:08Um If you've just joined, if you just like to switch your camera off and turn yourself on

09:12mute. Um, ok.

09:16Um uh Well, um, moving back to the questions unless either of you

09:23have anything that you'd like to add there.

09:26Um Matt before you picked up kind of briefly on the difference between cold flow and

09:30compression set. But could you expand on that a little bit more?

09:34Yeah, certainly. So cold is where as in that initial initial

09:39slide where the, the solid moves away and it doesn't have the ability to,

09:45to come back. Uh So it doesn't reform back into its original

09:48state. Uh Compression set is something that materials

09:53go through where obviously over a sustained period of pressure that's applied to it.

09:57It can, it can then have the ability once you release that pressure to then reform and the

10:03material falls back into its original state. Now, one thing to remember is these cable

10:07glands are, are put under pressure for 25 plus years.

10:10You want to apply this pressure to ma to maintain that protection concept that you're

10:14trying to achieve for, yeah, for 25 plus years. In, in some instances,

10:19in which case, you're not letting the cable flow back into its original state at any point.

10:24Um Obviously, you have regular inspections and essentially maybe every three years,

10:29you're doing a detailed inspection where you're undoing your cable glands and you're in

10:32inspecting everything that might be for 24 hours, could be a week,

10:37could be two weeks. But you're gonna then reapply that cable gun

10:41and you're gonna reapply the, the seal to that cable, which means that it's gonna then reapply

10:46to that sustained point. And that's then gonna continue to be to,

10:50to have the pressure applied, which obviously o over the course of its,

10:54of its lifespan will, will eventually cause problems and it's about mitigating them

10:59circumstances. You know, essentially, we're not saying that

11:02our universal seal will not leave an impression we're not saying that at all,

11:06it's about reducing the effects of coal for it has to have a pressure that's applied to the

11:09seal. But when it's about the, the amount of pressure

11:12and this universal seal, if you wanna look at down down the route of a,

11:16of a seal on the inner sheath, we can control that amount of pressure by design rather than

11:22by installation. And that's what compression seals obviously

11:25have against them is the fact that it's has to be manhandled,

11:28it has to be compressed using a compressive force, a set of spanners and it's only as good

11:33as the installer. So we, we do actually have a question in the

11:38chat related to that.

11:40Um Hawk is using the compression seal on the outer sheath of the cable.

11:45How does, how can coal flow be avoided by this compression seal?

11:48Now, you've kind of just you've kind of just uh covered that,

11:51but if you wanted to expand on that point a little bit more,

11:55so, yeah, I can expand on that. Um What you have to bear in mind is the

12:01requirements of 6 to 79-14 which basically state that if you're using a compression seal,

12:07the amount of force applied by the seal is required to be less than the amount of force it

12:13takes to displace the uh the surface of the cable by and large,

12:19the alpha sheets of cables are gonna be pretty hard cables have to pass a load of um testing,

12:25impact style testing and you know, it's unlikely that you're gonna get an altitude of a

12:30cable that is susceptible to the effects of coal flow.

12:33Um when using displacement seals.

12:37Um I think it's worth saying that uh Hawke's design of uh bat net seal is,

12:42is different to a lot of standard compression seals where it's actually a plastic cage with a

12:48silicon sleeve which um does impart less force onto the cables if it's correctly installed.

12:55Uh But I, I think when you're talking about the effects of coal flow and where you need to be

12:59really aware of it, you need to be looking predominantly at the inner sheet cable.

13:04I I, I'd like to expand on that a little bit. Obviously, the outer sheath I've seen in,

13:08in instances on site where there is an impression in the,

13:11in the outer sheath. And people have asked, is it,

13:13you know, is this a problem? Well, yes, it is.

13:16But you've got to think on how these things are designed, they're not designed to be swung off

13:22with a spanner. You know, you, you, you tighten them enough to

13:26ensure that the and if it's on an out the sheath of the cable,

13:28then, you know, potentially th this type of design.

13:30Yes, you would get EXD and your IP seal from a single seal.

13:34Um And the correct amount of tightness obviously ensures both of them

13:40some, in, in some instances, we've seen cable glands where they're,

13:44they're tightened to its absolute maximum. And if it does get tight to its absolute

13:48maximum, that's just increasing the force and whatever it's applied,

13:52whatever it's um, ceiling against, obviously ha has a certain amount of resistance.

13:57And if you go above that, then you're gonna get an impression.

14:00And as Andy said, you know, obviously the, the design of outs sheathed cables obviously have

14:04to withstand mechanical impacts and other obviously design criterias.

14:08So they are generally harder.

14:10Um but the C A correctly installed cable Gland to the assembly instructions that the cable gla

14:15manufacturer should give, you should ensure that that doesn't happen.

14:19But if you over tighten them, you know, and this is always going back back to competency

14:23and all of that complex courses and, and being on understanding what you're actually doing as

14:29a fundamental exercise of of of installing a cable gland that's kind of key to ensuring that

14:34that doesn't happen. Mhm.

14:38So um in the chat Eduardo has asked based on the IEC

14:4360079-14 standard, can we consider that co flow is critical mainly for

14:50ex DB protection in the world of

14:56dual certified cable glands? Um Obviously we have dual certified cable guns

15:03and and most other cable gun manufacturers also do um cables can be specified

15:09for cables such as these can be specified for exe applications.

15:15Now, although that inner seal isn't required for the protection concept it's going into.

15:22Um, because obviously it's exe this is essentially a flame proof seal which gives you

15:26exd protection.

15:28Um, then no, but if you install it and you over tighten that inner seal,

15:33then you could have things like, uh, low ir readings, obviously damaging of the cable,

15:39things that could potentially, you could potentially cut through that material,

15:43that the out the inner sheet material, that much that you could get cross wires between the,

15:47the cores themselves. You know, and we've seen exposed calls on some

15:51testing that's taken place.

15:54So I would say it's a yes or no answer. Um, you don't essentially need to have that in

16:00a, in a, in a, in a seal in place, but in the world of dual certified cable guns,

16:04that's part of the installation and has to be in place.

16:07Um, so it does have to be managed in such a way where you're not causing damage to the cable

16:11that may cause other issues other than a potential flame proof issue.

16:18Perfect. Thank you.

16:19And Andy, anything you'd like to add there?

16:22Um No, I'll probably agree with Matt where, um, you do have to be aware of your,

16:28your protection concepts and, and the actual design of the gland and how it's been installed

16:32if it's dual mat. Um But as Matt mentioned earlier,

16:36you know, we have seen issues where glands have been incorrectly installed and over tightened

16:41which can then um affect the English protection capability of the product,

16:46which as a knock on effect can affect your exe uh protection.

16:52So I th I think it's, it's probably mainly with the soft in embedded cable in mind

16:58and D seals on that. But um you know, you, you should be aware of

17:02all aspects of installation. Perfect. Thank you.

17:07Well, there's quite a few questions coming in about the dash 14 standards.

17:11But before we kind of go back to that, cos there was a question submitted via the form

17:15obviously about that as well. I just wanted to touch back on cables again and

17:20talk about the cable types that are affected by cold flow.

17:23Uh Now we did have a question about whether it affects armored or un armored cables

17:27specifically. Yeah. Um with Ahmed or an armored.

17:34Um the actual armoring of the cable gland doesn't affect how susceptible it is

17:41to the effects of coal flow.

17:43Having said that an alarma cable would normally be quite hard because it has had to pass uh

17:48cable testing, um cable impact testing, et cetera.

17:53And more often than not, we see very soft inner shoes on

18:00um the fire resistant type cables which do have some armoring within them.

18:05But if a cable is stated armored or enamored, that's not really a strong indication on its

18:11ability to resist the the effects of coal flow.

18:15We try, we try and always ask for a cable data sheet where possible.

18:18Obviously, it gives us sizing and shows we spec a cable gun that's suitable for that particular

18:24cable itself. And in within there, obviously,

18:26it'll tell us that the standards that it's designed to,

18:29um, and the standards that it's passed. So we can make an assumption from that,

18:33you know, a, a piece of sample cable is obviously the best.

18:38And then it's kind of looking at what you can potentially do on site to try and learn to

18:42understand what the cable construction is and whether this is potentially an issue.

18:46And you know, we don't, we don't I I this cable in a sheet is only there in the specific

18:53types of cable and, and this particular cable is a BFOU cable.

18:58We see it in RFOU cables, in RFC U cables.

19:02Um And it's not a problem on every single cable. We're definitely not saying that every

19:08installation should have a universal cable gland on it.

19:10So, so you can see on an inner sheath where we feel that we can manage the compression.

19:14Absolutely not because we have the other cable glands and we sell millions of them every year.

19:19So we, we, we wanna just kind of put it out there that we,

19:22we're not saying that this is the only option, but you have to be aware of what the cable

19:27construction is to understand whether you need one.

19:32You know, we have a, we have a very strong history of,

19:36of coming up with solutions. And I think by design,

19:38we're able to do that and we have some very talented designers and you know,

19:43this was something that we brought to market 20 plus years ago and it's still stopping this

19:47issue now. Um People still spec and live and die by this

19:50seal. Um And we have to, we can't obviously,

19:55you know, ignore obviously the other cables that are in the marketplace and the U the

19:59+51453 R AC that uses compression seal still absolutely has a place.

20:03Um So yeah, just ensuring that you, you know what the cable is and the characteristics of

20:08that cable by looking and taking a sample of it and, and analyzing it and look and even putting

20:13a AAA fiber 1421, just a simple compression gland on it to see what it does to that inner

20:18sheath would be um a good indication as to whether it's gonna be susceptible or not.

20:25Perfect. Thank you.

20:27Um Well, like I said, we'll get to some of those questions about the standards in a second.

20:31Uh But I'm just gonna read out a couple of questions that we've had.

20:35So Dave has said co flow cables are main, are they mainly?

20:38Oh, gosh, quite a few coming through here. Uh Co flow flow cables are mainly susceptible

20:42to offshore I er fou and BFOU cables.

20:49Um I think that's probably the case in, in, in most instances,

20:54um you know, onshore cables are from, from my experience are a little bit harder.

20:59They use a different material on the inner sheath.

21:01Um But that doesn't mean they're not, they're not specified.

21:04Um So yeah, you could probably general as a generalization, you could probably say that.

21:09But again, it's understanding what the characteristics of the cable,

21:12the way it's made, manufactured extruded, is it extruded, using a very soft inner sheath.

21:17Is it designed to 331 and 332? Um, that could have and cause the

21:24material to be, to be soft and get softer even with temperature and um understanding the,

21:29the operating temperature of the installation and whether heat is a heat is a factor too.

21:35Anything you'd like to add there. Andy.

21:38No, I think uh Matt's covered that in a, in a nutshell, for sure.

21:43Ok. Perfect.

21:45Um So this is another question from uh Teito. It seems that the problem rises when someone

21:52dismantles cable glands. Have you got test reports of the propagation

21:56test? Uh exd made on cable glands installed for some

21:59months, but with no dismantling actions. If the cable adapts against tightening pressure,

22:04it seems that the IP and exd integrity is kept, isn't it?

22:12Do you want to pick that one up or do you want me to do?

22:14Yeah. So, um there has been some independent testing

22:18of um all cable lands on cable um to,

22:24to uh ensure that the propagation protection is maintained.

22:30One kind of feature of the diaphragm seal is if there is any movement of the cable

22:36underneath the seal, which is generally going to be less if at all compared to a displacement

22:42seal, because there's less force imparted on the surface of the cable.

22:46Um The diaphragm does have the ability to move with the cable itself.

22:51So we have um seen tested in the past uh performed independently that has

22:58proven that this type of cable grant will maintain the,

23:00the propagation protection over time.

23:05I think, I think going back to a, a previous point that that I made was regarding the,

23:09the resistance of the material and the pressure applied, you have to maintain a certain

23:15pressure to withstand an explosion internally. And if that pressure is reduced and by the fact

23:21that the material is moving away, that pressure is reduced and over time,

23:26we, I don't, I don't know whether we've done any, any testing on cable glands that where we

23:30know the cable is susceptible to coal flow and we've applied a,

23:34an amount of pressure to it and we've not over tightened, we've not retightened it.

23:37Um And we've applied pressure to it. I'm not sure.

23:40Uh we'd have to have a look back in some test reports to see whether that's uh a test that

23:43we've done. But it may be something that's, we,

23:46we would be interested in looking at without doubt.

23:48Um So yeah, I think on by undoing them um can again,

23:55cause cause further issues, but I think that you would get a AAA transmission through

24:01between the cable and the inner sheath as the material flows away.

24:04But again, I haven't got any test material to back that up with my today's.

24:08But I, well, I certainly have a look at that.

24:12I think one of the, one of the point to mention actually is,

24:15is, you know, it's not just about maintaining your exd flame proof requirement,

24:20it's about inspection, it's about maintainability, it's about all them things

24:23that go into the design of a product that ensures it will last the test of time.

24:28You know, you don't just put it into commission, you leave it for 25 years,

24:31you have to come back to it, you have to ensure that it's,

24:34it, it stays in the correctly installed state.

24:36Um So y by design or by, by uh installation requirements, you have to take these things

24:43apart and periodically, um which obviously could have further impact on,

24:48on these issues.

24:51Ok, great. Well, there's a couple of questions actually

24:54coming through about inspection, but before we, before we go to that,

24:58let's let's go back to kind of the standards and let's talk about how cold flow is measured

25:03and the test for it first and then we'll go on to that dash 14 standard a little bit.

25:07So if you want to talk a little bit about the test for cold flow.

25:11Yeah. So um as far as I'm aware, there is no defined

25:15test for co flow.

25:18Um Therefore, it, we, we find it difficult to see how we

25:25can s state compliance with a test that basically doesn't exist.

25:30Um All the six of 079-14 standard says is that um a

25:37the force of your seal can be no greater than the amount of force it takes to displace the

25:42surface of the cable.

25:44Um And basically you have to choose uh cable grounds that are appropriate for installation.

25:50So it's not actually c uh called out as a specific test within,

25:55within the standards themselves. Although it is something,

25:58you know, we do put glands on cables to, to find suitability when required.

26:03Um but it's not actually specifically called out as a test that has to be performed and

26:09passed within the uh within the A E standards.

26:12So how is it controlled then?

26:16Um I think the only control is that the installer has to ensure that they

26:23are choosing uh cable glands that are suitable for the application that they're going into.

26:28Um And obviously, we will advise wherever we can to try and ensure that those selections are

26:35correct. Um But it's basically controlled through the

26:39correct installation of the product and the um the maintenance and inspection schedules

26:45thereafter. Nice. Perfect. If you've just joined,

26:52if you want to just mute yourself. That would be great.

26:54Um So if you want to talk a little bit more about the that dash 14 standard and a little

27:00bit more depth there, we've already established that it's not an explicit test.

27:03And we've said it's kind of, you know, in, in the hands of the installer to a certain extent,

27:07but we have received a few questions about that standard.

27:09So if you wanna expand on that a little bit, I mean, da dash 14 is,

27:16is obviously the installation standard and and it refers to methods of installation to

27:22mitigate circumstances and and to ensure that you've, you you can have a product that will

27:28stand the test of time and, and and obviously live for for for as long as you need it to.

27:33Um and you know, dash 14 is all really about having somebody who is familiar with these

27:39products competent in what they do, ensuring that they install correctly.

27:43And that's a set of guidelines around that installation process for,

27:47for whatever it is in, in, in for uh uh products that are certified to a specific

27:53protection concept.

27:55Um So yeah, it covers a lot of different, a lot of different scenarios.

27:59Cable is a cable gland is a very small part of that obviously with banking elements and

28:04closures, all of them things that these things have to interface with,

28:07obviously that it's about making sure that they've got a set of rules to to govern the way

28:12that they install these products and to ensure that they,

28:14they meet the requirements throughout the lifespan of the products,

28:19whether that be cable, guns or enclosures or motors or whatever,

28:22it may be. Perfect.

28:25Um Well, kind of going back to that, that, that standard specifically talks about like you say,

28:31ways to uh reduce. But Dave has asked, are there any ways to

28:35eliminate cold flu?

28:40The best way going on? You can put one up?

28:43I think we're gonna give the same answer.

28:47If you, if you've got a seal on the inner sheath of a cable there,

28:50you know, there's always an element of force on the cable itself.

28:54Um If you were in, if you were to install the barrier type gland that doesn't impart any

28:59force onto the inner sheet of the cable. Um as it forms,

29:03seals around the course.

29:05So, uh you could make an argument that um a barrier gland uh is really the only

29:12type of gland that could eliminate um co flow on the industry of the cable because there's

29:19an impart any force onto the surface.

29:21Uh However, you're not going to want to install that type of gland in every single application

29:26as it's cost prohibitive.

29:28Um Much more expensive to install, takes more time, more expensive to buy.

29:33Um So you need to review your application, uh

29:40review the type of cable that your land's been installed on to review the type of protection

29:45concept and choose the uh, appropriate land for, for the installation.

29:51And then we're gonna say that and pretty much, um, that,

29:54that's essentially all. So in dash 14 and I,

29:58I'd like to touch base on a, on a, on a design feature that we've,

30:02we've obviously put into our new range of ones that we launched in 2019 was the fact that you

30:06can upgrade it. Um, so essentially all of them things that

30:11Andy's just mentioned needs to be managed and really that's managed by the installer to

30:16ensure that they've got a suitable product for the installation that,

30:18that, that they're currently working on.

30:21Now, if they find that this, the cable that they've got is going into whatever it may be

30:25going into and they don't deem that to be suitable and they feel that barrier Glan would

30:29be better, then you can just upgrade the cable gland that you've got.

30:33Um by purchasing an upgrade kit, which means you use the same body.

30:37We use four, we use the same 44 out of the five components of the same and you purchase that

30:43upgrade kit that can change it from a universal gland, which is this type of seal to a

30:47traditional Barry Gland, which is a liquid poor seal um or a putty type type seal dependent on

30:53the installation requirements.

30:55Um which is obviously something that we, we wanted to include within our uh design upgrade

31:00of our glands last year just to make them more versatile on site because these are issues that

31:05people are facing day to day in the field.

31:10Ok, perfect. And just you know, you you've mentioned barrier

31:14glands, you've mentioned, you know, kind of that in every case,

31:17the the types of cables should be evaluated that they,

31:20that people are using.

31:21But is you know, what would you recommend as generally the best type of cable glands for

31:25protection against cold flow?

31:30I think we, we are sorry, I think we have to go on our

31:37testing longevity. You know, this design has been around for a

31:41long time and has has, has worked in a vast amount, you know,

31:46many, many many thousands millions of applications.

31:51There are environmental issues where things could potentially go wrong.

31:54And now there's a lot of a lot of uh pictures that don't necessarily tell the right story

32:01online and things and we need to obviously face up to that and the things that like

32:06environmental issues could mean that this doesn't have the effect that it's designed to

32:12have. And if that's the case then fair enough,

32:16I I we understand that obviously that could cause issues but in the vast majority and I,

32:22and I'm talking like 99.999% of all applications it does and and that's what it was

32:29designed to do. Now, obviously, this ca the cable land with

32:33this seal over a Barry Gland is pretty much half the price and to say that you just got it

32:38for, for one issue that could have occurred just to switch to barry glands and it cost you

32:43hundreds of thousands more pounds on a, on a big project I think is a bit extreme when

32:48there's a perfectly good design that we feel doesn't cause and we can manage that amount of

32:53pressure that's been applied to the, to the cable itself.

32:56Um You know, we've had a lot of history with this particular seal design.

33:01Um We've had a lot of people trying to try to copy it and have been unsuccessful.

33:06And as far as we're aware, there isn't any other cable gland that has the same effect as

33:13this particular seal design that we have, which is our diaphragm seal.

33:18I mean, the key thing to remember about that seal is it takes the,

33:21the um installer out of the equation when it comes to tightening up the seal onto the cable

33:26with displacement seals, it's so easy to over tighten them,

33:29particularly onto soft bedded cable. Um As you tighten up the universal seal,

33:35it doesn't impart more force onto the cable, it's passive.

33:39Um And also you can see it when you undo it, you can undo it and pull it out and it's still

33:43in contact with the cable. So you can see what's going on with a

33:46displacement seal.

33:48Uh You undo it and the displacement seal loses contact with the surface of the cable.

33:52Um, so you can't inspect it and sit you in the same way that you can with the universal once

33:59it's slid onto the cable, that is where it sits for the remainder of its days.

34:04Um, and you can inspect and ensure that that is in good working order without un compressing

34:10anything. Um, it's in position to tap for the whole

34:13amount of time of the product life. Perfect. Um Well,

34:20let we'll kind of go back to inspection in a second.

34:23What we do? We've just had another question, um which

34:26relates to the kind of the topic that we're talking about,

34:29about the best glands. Uh E Alito has said we find a lot of uh cold

34:34flow cable glands in the market. How can the customer really know which ones are,

34:38are functional proven and, and which ones are, you said the fake ones?

34:44Yeah. Well, I mean, it goes without saying we,

34:46Hawke's got, you know, 20 years in the market with this type of seal.

34:51So it's, it's proven, um basically through application and through being installed.

34:57Um and we can demonstrate our success in that way.

35:01I'd be very wary of, of getting statements from the manufacturers on coal flow compliance

35:07because as we've talked about before, a what are you stating compliance to?

35:11Because there's no real test or standard that you have to adhere to.

35:17Um, and b particularly if it's displacement type seals,

35:22they're putting it on the installer, the end user, which is you guys to tighten up the

35:27ground correctly. And if you overdo it and throttle the cable,

35:31that's um, the issue is not with the manufacturer.

35:35So this thing, you have to be very careful of, of just taking statements.

35:39I think you have to understand what the, what the situation is.

35:42You have to understand your cables and your application and understand the Glans,

35:46understand the pros and cons of different glands and how they work.

35:49Um And I think the best, the best way you can make a decision is um through education and

35:56through coming on calls like this where we explain what's going on.

36:01Definitely anything you'd like to add Burma.

36:05Not for me. No.

36:07Um Well, let's just kind of consolidate that. Um So T min has asked.

36:12So can we say the IC G 653 is the best followed by the 501453 universal for the Cold flow issue?

36:19I, if you were just, I was gonna say, if you're just saying call flow and nothing else,

36:24then yes, but you have to consider costs. You have to consider installation time,

36:30you have to consider your application and you have to make,

36:33make a judgment. Um after looking at those things,

36:35you know, consider your type of cable.

36:38But if, if you want to say just to eliminate coal flow,

36:41then there is an argument to say the IC G is the, the ground that does the best job of

36:47mitigating that. Um But as Matt's really said,

36:50in 99.9% of applications, the uh universal is uh uh appropriate choice.

36:57Um Also if the, if the cable meets the standard c certainly for,

37:03for exd, you know, there's obviously a lot of things to discuss regarding protection concepts

37:08that we've gone over before, you know, it has to be greater than 3 m,

37:11it has to be extruded, compact circular, all them things.

37:15Um So if, if that's the case, then like I say, you know,

37:17cost and, and and effectiveness on the keyboards needs to be looked at considered.

37:27Perfect. Thank you.

37:29Um Right. So I want to, I want to make sure you've got

37:33time for the kind of grand reveal of the uh expansion.

37:36So um I'm just gonna go through a couple more of these questions um on here.

37:41So Adam um has said you correctly mentioned that the ongoing detail inspections require

37:47dismantling of the gland.

37:49It is when these further detailed inspections take place,

37:52that coal flow is normally noticed when reinstating the gland after this periodic

37:57inspection. How can you guarantee that the gas,

37:59the gas seal uh when it's reinstated?

38:02Are there any limits to the de defamation uh that once the defamation exceeds a certain

38:07amount, the gas seal may be impaired and therefore the cable should be replaced.

38:12Yeah. Well, there have been cases where the the level

38:16of coal flow that you see is so much that it does take the diameter of the cable below the

38:21lower limit of the gland.

38:23So by the very fact that your diameter is out of spec that's um

38:30potentially an unsafe situation.

38:35I was just gonna say, yeah, you, you're deforming the cable and if,

38:40if the cable allows for the seal to be released because, and this is another,

38:45another subject that we could, we could talk about is thermoplastic versus thermostat

38:50materials. Um If you can actually get it off to inspect it,

38:54then um if you reseal onto that, yeah, you've got to take into account that's then your,

39:00your, your um inner diameter of the cable. Um that obviously has to be within a certain

39:06range for that seal to be effective to meet the certification requirements of the equipment

39:11that you're installing onto. But again, that's the plus point in the +51453

39:15universal is you don't have to um disengage the seal to do a detaile